Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Jag

COVID-19

Recommended Posts

I would like to hear everyone's thoughts on COVID-19.

How have you been?  Did you or your family get sick?  Is it getting bad in your area again?  What are you doing about it?

Did you get the vaccine?  If not are you going to?  Which one did you get?

What is your mask stance?

 

I am fortunate to live in a rather rural area where it never really got out of hand.  We know people who have had unexpected deaths from it, but nothing close to home.  My family never got symptomatic, although we may have had it pass through, but both my employees got it and it was hard on them.  The pandemic never changed anything for my family other than kids home from school.  I still went to work (pharmacist) and so did the wife (nurse).  COVID is on the rise again, my county just went into the red (status) again for active infections.  I have yet to hear or see of anyone vaccinated catching it though.

The wife and I both have 2 doses of the Pfizer vaccine and probably a 3rd soon, but our kids have not been vaccinated yet, they probably will be eventually, but it doesn't really seem to affect young people much at all from what we have seen.

I am anti mask drama.  We wear them when ever required, but don't bother otherwise.  I live in an area with a strong anti-mask contingency and I see both sides of the argument when it comes to data but I don't get involved other than sharing the facts we have.  Which are : 1.  A properly fitted and sealed N95 mask can prevent you from acquiring covid.  2. If you have covid ANY mask does a lot to prevent transmission to others although an n95 is preferred.  3.  All the crappy cloth masks or a regular surgical mask will in no way prevent you from catching covid although perhaps (inconclusive) maybe it decreases your acquisition radius from 6 feet to 4-5 feet.  So it doesn't hurt, but certainly not as helpful as you might think which is why there is so much drama around it. 

 

I am happy to answer any questions people have about the vaccines or any other COVID related concerns.

Edited by Jag

People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Howdy bud ... its been awhile.  Welcome back!

My immediate family never got it.  Although I wouldnt be surprised if I personally had it in December, before we even heard of covid.  I have had friends that have had it.  One hospitalization and it was from a high school girl that had post complications.  My friends father passed from covid, he was in his 90s.

I received 2 doses of the Moderna vaccine.  I got it because I had an opportunity to get it early on and to be honest, the main driver was appeasing my girlfriend so I would not receive any flack for doing things with my friends.  My kids have chosen not to get vaccinated.  I tried to convince them otherwise but understand their position.

I wear a mask when absolutely required.  Otherwise, I don't care to wear it.  My feelings, based on what I have read and observed, is they (cloth masks) don't make any difference.  Agree or disagree with me, here is why I feel that way.  Case count graphs are all over the place and broken down by country, state, county, etc.  With 18+ months of data, I have yet to see anyone point to the data and show the dip in cases in masks vs no masks.  Seems to me it would be something easily seen, replicated and verified if they worked.

Also, I can put on my mask, start cooking dinner, and smell it.  I smell my dinner because the scent particles are smaller than the pores of cloth masks.  The scent particles are predominantly larger than covid carrying particles.  So I don't have any reasonable expectation they would filter any viral particles.  Again, these are my observations based on my real world experience.  For the record, I sleep with someone that vehemently disagrees with me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's pretty okay in my area for now. A big portion of people here are (fully) vaccinated, apart from certain cities where the percentage is a lot lower. Most people who are currently submitted in hospital are either not vaccinated or only received their first dose so that's at least promising in terms of efficacy. I've received the Pfizer vaccine 2 times, to hopefully get herd immunity and because I have a high risk profile. I work in the pharmaceutical business so I have no doubts whatsoever that the vaccines have been properly tested and are safe (or as safe as any other medicine people take without thinking twice). So 'why not get it' was my reasoning behind the decision. I do not agree with forcing people to take the vaccine or taking away a big part of their freedom if they do not take it (which is a way of forcing imo). In my opinion it is your right to keep your medical information private and I do understand some people who fear the vaccine for various reasons. These people are often belittled, seen as selfish or stupid,... And I don't think this helps the situation in any way. I've seen especially on facebook that people are almost 'happy' or have the 'I told you so' attitude when a non-vaccer get's really sick or dies and that turns my stomach to be honest.

I have been able to continue working and I'm very happy about that. Having zero traffic since everyone else was working from home was a nice side effect.

I wear masks because I need to, but like said in the original post, I think they have minimal impact. It will create an extra barrier for aerosol particles so I am not against wearing them when crossing people/when people are in the same room for a short period of time. I don't think they help if you are in the same room for multiple hours a day.

 

Moving forward, at least in my country, I think we have reached the plateau of people who want to be vaccinated. This means that, if our hospitals are not up to the task (we had problems with not enough breathing systems a while back), this should change because Covid isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's interesting to see other countries having the same issues.  On the subject of mandating vaccines, it's a bit weird because everyone fighting it now had to prove immunization in grade school for several things.  I had to do it for school, for rotations, to get my license, and so on.  In my job I have been very vocal/firm with people about getting vaccines for pertussis before being around babies and other similar situations.  At this point we have enough data that people should just treat it like measles or varicella (chicken pox).  There is no legitimate or justified scientific to get the vaccine at this point.  It's all social.  Having to prove vaccination to go to a restaurant or stadium is a bit of a different thing though and you are right I think it's over the line.  Vaccinated people don't need to be concerned about unvaccinated people from what we can tell so there is no reason to mandate in those situations.

I think herd immunity is a pipe dream because of the way this virus can move into other species, but it could happen.  More than likely it will become seasonal like the flu to get your booster.  


People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where I live the percent of people vaccinated is just in the low 30's.  Over 85 percent of the people in the hospitals here are unvaccinated and the hospitals are full, to the point that they are giving the less critical oxygen and sending them home.  

So far in the family just my brother and 2 nephews have had it. they were luck and didn't have to go to the hospital.  I wear a mask outside of the house even when not required since it doesn't hurt me and I figure every little bit helps.  I have had 2 of the Pfizer in March and the wife has had 2 Moderna in May.  Personally while I don't like the idea of the government forcing people I don't mind the idea of business requiring it of the people who can in order to protect the young ones who can't get vaccinated and help out the hospitals with over crowding.  Also I hear a lot that it doesn't effect young kids but here locally there have been several deaths and hospitalizations of kids under 12, another reason for those that can to get vaccinated.  

I kept my kids out of school last year but their grades suffered so I have put them back in this year.  The school year is less than 4 weeks in and they have had to close 3 schools due to out breaks. 

I agree with Jag in that I believe it is here to stay like the flu.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's because it's going to be here forever that I don't like the drastic measures like having to carry a special COVID ID for the rest of my life.  I feel like we are starting to get into the whole RFID thing and I don't like that AT ALL.


People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where I live things are going the wrong direction. it was getting better, but now we are seeing a new surge . A lot of people here blame the unvaccinated, but my friend who is a medical professional working at our largest hospital, says this was inevitable. Like the flu, we should expect to see a "season" for covid every year. She also says that the vaccinated are "super spreaders". because of their lack of symptoms they are more likely to be in a situation where they are contagious without a mask or without social distancing. 

I guess I don't understand the difference between the government forcing people to get vaccinated and a business forcing it? To me this has the same effect. People who refuse to vaccinate, for whatever reason, will be unable to function freely in society. That's not a place I want to live.

Also, I don't think you can compare vaccines for chicken pox or mmr with the covid vaccine. First, covid vaccines are under emergency approval only unlike the others mentioned that have YEARS of data available on potential side effects. And there is still reluctance to get these established vaccines in some population groups. This mentally to not trust vaccines with continue to grow the more it is forced. 

I am 100% against forcing people to do anything when it comes to healthcare. Medical history and medical decisions should be private and between the person and their doctor ONLY. Why doesn't the CDC restrict people from entering the door of any fast food restaurant without proof of normal cholesterol levels? Or stores refusing to sell candy bars to obese children? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I have read tends to agree with everyone else.  Covid is here to stay no matter what we do.

Covid is different from other eradicated viruses because it is airborne AND infects numerous other animals.  The result is, we could vaccinate every person in the world, yet the virus would have a place to spread and mutate.  Mutations would eventually spread back to humans and reinfect.

This begs the question ... what is the long term play?  You have a wide variety of responses, from New Zealand to Sweden.  Are periodic lockdowns sustainable?  School closures?  What constitutes fully vaccinated going forward?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is some misconception when it comes to vaccine data.  No vaccine had years of data before approval.  Other than long term side effects which are beyond incredibly rare the immune system is done with and process out everything that was in the vaccine for 8 weeks.  It's not the vaccine working to fight off your virus, it's the vaccine teaching your immune system then leaving.  This is why full studies can be conducted quickly.  There is no trace of vaccine still around to do anything.  EUA isn't much different than full FDA, the big difference being they get to conduct multiple phases of the trials at the same time.  It's just red tape with the full fda at this point, and I think money is driving it, or we would have COVAXIN and other vaccines already available at this point.  While in EUA with no other vaccines being allowed to submit for EUA the EUA vaccines have an exclusive market.

My issue with private businesses and government mandating stuff like this isn't necessarily with covid, I just wonder what will get mandated next.

 

Edited by Jag

People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Covid is calming here in the UK, but still an issue. Around 65% have been double vaccinated. I had mine quite early, as i have some underlying health issues. My wife was vaccinated even earlier, as she's a Nurse.

The attitude to masks here seems to be very different to some of the comments here. We don't EVER wear mask to stop acquiring the virus from what we inhale - We wear them to reduce the chance of us passing it on in what we exhale. I believe the same is true of the prolific mask-wear Japanese culture, who i only recently learned from some lovely students here, that they do when they have a cold, to avoid passing on the germs to others.

Last point to note, is that a month ago, 65% of the patients with Covid on my Wife's wards were people who had had both jabs.

 

 


May the Force Live Long and Prosper.

Cynical Optimist

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What vaccine was prevalent in the UK?  The data coming out of the US insists that a double jab will 98% prevent severe covid and hospitalization, but I don't trust it based on what I hear from the local providers and stories like yours.

 


People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Strange that the percent hospitalized is so varied.  Here I am getting the info from friends on the frontline.   The hospitalized are 85-89% unvaccinated.  The local news are saying over 92% unvaccinated, now that difference could be they are including more hospitals since I only have friends at 3 local ones.

 

Agree with Pasanda, wearing a mask is to stop giving it to other since you can be contagious for several days before you even know it.  So I when see people not wearing a mask I think what a selfish prick, how many people are you going to spread it to and kill because you have it and aren't at least trying to keep from spreading it.....Granted not everyone has it but with it's incubation/contagious time you can't be sure you don't have it. 

 

Business vs government vaccination requirement is a big difference.  Since someone else can open a competing business and not require the vaccine to enter, capitalism at work.  That is why I don't mind a business owner requiring it to enter.

 

And while I don't have any data, I am going just by what I have seen here locally were less than 35% are vaccinated, the people most likely to wear a mask are also the ones that are vaccinated.  So while yes media can say that the vaccinated people are super spreaders, masks do a lot to stop it and most people who care enough to be vaccinated are also wearing masks.  Heck there are several people I work with that are double masking, they are all vaccinated too. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/22/2021 at 6:45 AM, Boag said:

Agree with Pasanda, wearing a mask is to stop giving it to other since you can be contagious for several days before you even know it.  So I when see people not wearing a mask I think what a selfish prick, how many people are you going to spread it to and kill because you have it and aren't at least trying to keep from spreading it.....Granted not everyone has it but with it's incubation/contagious time you can't be sure you don't have it. 

 

Isn't it kind of an oxymoron though?  If someone doesn't want to catch covid, they can wear an N95 mask and not care about what anyone else is doing.  If vaccinated people aren't worried about catching it should they be overly concerned about being an unknown spreader when the at risk people won't protect themselves?

Now if you are sick, that's a different situation, but otherwise I don't see the justification for mask mandates for the vaccinated.

 

EDIT: Fresh off the presses. "Unvaccinated people are about 29 times more likely to be hospitalized with Covid-19 than those who are fully vaccinated, according to a study released Tuesday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention."

Edited by Jag

People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Darwinism in action.

I predict microbes will cause humanity's end; human immune system adaptations are slower than microbe mutations.

... and there's more of them ...

 

Edited by Elovia

"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others whenever they go." - Oscar Wilde

"I'm not bad; I'm just drawn that way." - Jessica Rabbit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Jag said:

 

Now if you are sick, that's a different situation, but otherwise I don't see the justification for mask mandates for the vaccinated.

 

 

Because you can be vaccinated and still acquire and spread it before you know you are infected, and masks reduce the spread of infection by (not to) those who wear them - although that is still being debated.

Vaccinated folk can spread it even more dangerously, because (as you inferred) they may be less likely to know they are infected.


May the Force Live Long and Prosper.

Cynical Optimist

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Pasanda said:

Because you can be vaccinated and still acquire and spread it before you know you are infected, and masks reduce the spread of infection by (not to) those who wear them - although that is still being debated.

Vaccinated folk can spread it even more dangerously, because (as you inferred) they may be less likely to know they are infected.

That's a fair point, the Delta seems to spread as well in vaccinated people who acquire it as those who are unvaccinated.  I think with most of the vaccines we have around 70-85% who don't aquire or get symptoms, 15-25 or so depending on the vaccine who catch it with mild symptoms or none, and then less than 3-5% who acquire severe covid.  So potentially 3 in 10 vaccinated can still be spreading covid.

I think the bigger issue is that although masking lowers the contact radius to spread, it doesn't eliminate it unless people are wearing N95 masks.  People don't understand their cloth or surgical mask isn't doing anything for them.  Especially in crowded areas like public transportation or restaurants.  Only N95 rated masks work.  Get N95 masks.  There are no shortages anymore.

 

Edited by Jag

People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A lot's changed in the past month.

My vaccinated aunt and uncle got covid.  Uncle actually spent time in the ICU.  He's home, recovering, and on oxygen.  Aunt is better.

Me and my daughter got it.  I had the vaccine and she didn't.  She had her first symptoms a few days ahead of me and is better now.  I'm feeling better today but not there yet.  Lost my sense of smell between lunch and dinner today.  Fortunately, its basically been a bad cold for me and my daughter.  She was symptom free today, felt better, tested negative and is back at her moms after spending the week with me.

I know as many people that have had it in the past few weeks as I knew in the rest of the pandemic combined.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is indeed going crazy.  Everyone is talking about the unvaccinated being the problem, but I think that's only to hide that fact the MRNA vaccines they have been pushing aren't that great against mutations.  We need Covaxin to get approved IMO.  I am glad everyone made it out safe.  The vaccine for sure makes it less severe.


People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow. Joe Biden just called out the unvaxed. It amazes me that he needs to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated. How are they a threat? Isn't the vaccine supposed to protect you? Now, if you want to argue that getting vaccinated is important to protect those that CANNOT get vaccinated. Well, then I would argue that the vaccinated are just as likely to infect the unvaccinated (if not more likely). So who needs protection? This should not be a political talking point. If people had more faith in big pharma, they wouldn't be hesitant to get vaccinated. That is the real problem, not political alignment. It is a statistical fact that in the US the population with the least number of vaccinated people is minority groups. These are the same minority groups that statistically vote Democratic. 

Anyway. I am frustrated with the leaders of my country. This is going to back fire. You might get a few more people to vaccinate, but more than likely you are going to make people push back. This will result in a even higher labor shortage in the most vulnerable places like hospitals and schools. 

What do you all think about this?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Stacyejaye said:

Wow. Joe Biden just called out the unvaxed. It amazes me that he needs to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated. How are they a threat? Isn't the vaccine supposed to protect you? Now, if you want to argue that getting vaccinated is important to protect those that CANNOT get vaccinated. Well, then I would argue that the vaccinated are just as likely to infect the unvaccinated (if not more likely). So who needs protection? This should not be a political talking point. If people had more faith in big pharma, they wouldn't be hesitant to get vaccinated. That is the real problem, not political alignment. It is a statistical fact that in the US the population with the least number of vaccinated people is minority groups. These are the same minority groups that statistically vote Democratic. 

Anyway. I am frustrated with the leaders of my country. This is going to back fire. You might get a few more people to vaccinate, but more than likely you are going to make people push back. This will result in a even higher labor shortage in the most vulnerable places like hospitals and schools. 

What do you all think about this?

 

It's just 100% politics and backdoor Phizer/Moderna agreements.  I think people should get vaccinated, but the direction is wrong and amounts to nothing more than grandstanding.


People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my country the leaders are also calling out the unvaccinated, but here I do understand the need. The unvaccinated are the ones who end up in the hospital and since our capacity is again reaching it's max, this means that other medical interventions are being pushed back (this includes cancer treatment and surgeries to relieve pain). The problem isn't being infected, which can happen to vaccinated people as well, the problem is when you get so sick that you need to get hospitalized, which doesn't happen with vaccinated people nearly as much.

 

That being said, I don't think the way to tackle this is talking down to people who do not trust big pharma, but educate more and show that there is nothing to fear. That and increasing hospital capacities and don't reserve beds just for covid if there are already people with other illnesses waiting in line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Pasanda said:

Unless there is.....

👽😎🕵️‍♀️

People always want to talk about "I am Legend" when it comes to vaccines, however, I have always thought Aschen approach is a better way to go about it.

Quote

A powerful anti-aging drug available to Earth citizens in an alternate future timeline, as well as a cure for a pandemic on the Aschen world of Volia several years before. In both cases, the vaccine intentionally causes an enormous amount of the population to become sterile in order to rapidly decrease the birthrate on a world within the Aschen Confederation. Almost a decade after the introduction of the drug about 91% of the population is unable to procreate.

The Aschen patiently wait perhaps twenty years for the vaccine to sweep into the genome of the entire race. Eventually there are so few individuals left that the advanced culture can effectively conquer the world, terraforming the planet so it is suitable for farming. In the process they often raise the remaining population themselves, brainwashing them into forgetting the past and providing maintenance to the farm land.

 

Edited by Jag

People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...